Score/Ranking system [long post]

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stealth
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:02 pm

Score/Ranking system [long post]

Post by stealth »

I think the scoring system needs to be changed. At the moment the score is calculated like this:

Pn1..Pnn: The amount of players that have played a map
P1..Pn: Your rank on a map

Score = (Pn1 - P1) + (Pn2 - P2) + ... + (Pnn - Pn)

Problem with this is that the score just keeps accumulating. After a few months / years it will be very difficult for new players to get to the top of the ladder, since there are so many maps.

My first idea was to implement some kind of timelimit. For instance what is your score during the last 30 days? But then you're still left with the same problem that the people who play the most will probably have the best scores.
So maybe we could implement a kind of elo rating system or something else?
Elo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

The initial problem with elo is that it's a system for 2 player matches (chess), but after some quick googling it looks like there is at least 1 solution for that: http://sradack.blogspot.be/2008/06/elo- ... ayers.html

This will also make it more rewarding to beat a better player. (You gain a higher increase for that)
New players can then also be given a boost by increasing the K value for the first 30 timeruns or so and then slowly decreasing it. (This has other effects too, but I think the wiki explains it better)

You can also make elo decay if a player doesn't play for a while which will let new players have a better chance to reach the top. (and keep players active) League of Legends does this: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Other rating systems based on elo:
Glicko: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system
Trueskill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueSkill
(these are also only for 2 player games though)

tl;dr The ranking system needs to be changed how about elo?

Any other thoughts, ideas welcomed. Do we even need to change the current system?

stealth
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: Score/Ranking system [long post]

Post by stealth »

You could probably also take into account if somebody is using cgaz or not and then if they beat a time while using cgaz the elo increase is smaller compared to without cgaz.

RaNGe
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: Score/Ranking system [long post]

Post by RaNGe »

I agree otherwise f3mm3 might as well get the sum of the total player points excluding him

stealth
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: Score/Ranking system [long post]

Post by stealth »

I finally got around to trying this out. Downloaded the records of 1400+- maps and used http://sradack.blogspot.be/2008/06/elo- ... ayers.html to try and get some interesting values.

So far I've got some values that are better than what we have now, but there is still a big advantage to people that play a lot. Atm I've only used flat values though (for K & D), tomorrow I kill try values that decrease as you gain more records to try and give new players or people with fewer records a boost.

Anyway here is one of the more interesting results so far:

Code: Select all

>>>rambo.: 1553.26395417398
**sykos: 1549.27675091366
*luna*: 1081.27521697823
*mush?: 1219.1663562301
.namdam: 1006.60340308839
0o0o0o: 1001.30972451903
999lullaby: 1000.93449135462
advanc3d: 1114.75817904822
ajb*: 1718.53591917569
aram: 1000.31702723266
arca: 1006.29870273344
arcticbear: 1001.56259973835
asdaa: 1026.44630455362
autist: 1145.0462034005
badboy: 1069.91189782075
bendy: 1007.16330157937
bladinator: 1008.31311648536
blue: 1003.50375078404
bones: 1008.24118970335
boody: 1005.915385376
book: 1003.47551022738
bull: 1000.63917314707
chasin: 1104.56724345687
ciamcia: 1073.95787722384
craccio: 1003.12853013839
darky: 1868.04050385959
deadly: 1011.66074600037
diman: 1193.00864570874
dnbradio: 1229.71151847153
drama queen: 1211.96387647548
duperrrr: 1001.39125600645
dydziekk: 1000.18701641363
eddo: 1023.18486408198
ehamo: 1008.66699393724
essi: 1879.6045173291
et_exit.: 1244.6165367914
evo: 1622.88608703508
expo: 1004.39248752065
f3mm3: 4108.93780707978
flexz??: 1037.84105829955
fracziij: 1001.72216137805
fritsie: 1007.21371477761
gaffaz: 1008.03509182021
gnou: 1565.86269055535
god: 1054.75932214456
gungh0: 1000.14837639103
hazz: 1010.38812030782
hemuu: 1000.47535260677
highway: 1272.77866078627
holdtj: 1026.39917855442
hooksinu: 1021.27266218531
inept: 1001.81004292768
innion: 1000.52329264978
insaniity: 1035.71138571906
instye: 1003.83277997988
joey: 1053.34867727146
kaarl: 1000.18205182797
kreper1: 1250.12676079459
kwijl: 999.968960920334
legenddon: 1030.72139517175
legi: 1003.37233765214
leoo: 1585.10562410118
lock: 1005.40353286197
lost: 1840.53994782558
m@ster: 1097.32519998446
meijer: 1463.80703239367
mirqli: 1204.65990377682
miura: 1000.65053154149
mr.sandman: 1755.47108820165
n3rdje: 1016.1959782221
neon: 1000.93913497938
nico: 1941.42411473244
ninjadeer*: 1201.97933492312
ntz: 1002.46771855446
olas: 1000.40122755291
paddo: 1005.49302307513
pinf: 1004.54998923942
prada: 1015.58203025001
pupup0x: 1008.52619274356
rabowitz: 1067.15744971453
range: 1341.28022514369
raven: 1797.73759498562
rena: 1662.72641687127
revenge: 2180.84621548407
rgman: 1055.40227519353
run: 1020.02164988406
sabrewolf: 1004.63167492696
scorp: 1316.95122309569
shady: 2120.22390348729
shamuzka: 1003.89274139965
sinek9: 1617.79831907508
skoczek3000: 1004.25188953826
skyence.: 3555.12660084799
smerf: 1201.2450514287
spectator: 1039.58853412523
spirit: 1002.86978662081
sprint: 1017.57851573836
stalker.: 1046.51991684768
stealth: 1694.32531715785
stuns: 1164.65653766326
timothy: 1796.63723493825
toska: 1000.35868442805
tromort: 1131.5401963056
venomious: 1000.65532414174
virg377: 1003.37513163535
weedy: 1002.80345128771
wut: 1009.15177322046
xdsander: 2267.20983471336
yave.: 1081.10768656503
yoshi: 1002.32378608847
z&o: 1157.11438193624
zanc: 1456.28487668909

NinjaDeer*
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:19 am

Re: Score/Ranking system [long post]

Post by NinjaDeer* »

i think the current system is fine

stealth
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: Score/Ranking system [long post]

Post by stealth »

I made a mistake in the calculation yesterday :o

Here is an updated result where the first 75 maps count for more:

Code: Select all

>>>rambo.: 863.548926545091
**sykos: 817.212481769373
*luna*: 968.432995816269
*mush?: 948.484627428369
.namdam: 1004.03865277886
0o0o0o: 981.6506325201
999lullaby: 999.751846759709
advanc3d: 859.937764352283
ajb*: 1010.85999705784
aram: 996.885084735342
arca: 1013.8264928236
arcticbear: 961.980800081148
asdaa: 1021.86202625196
autist: 865.54453181736
badboy: 842.731157141557
bendy: 984.446988224886
bladinator: 969.629819210124
blue: 996.849165792392
bones: 998.963916251339
boody: 893.734442786768
book: 976.02084841175
bull: 996.585248215803
chasin: 1030.75049708774
ciamcia: 924.395598757782
craccio: 958.242905796317
darky: 1261.40434021083
deadly: 929.334925387735
diman: 996.425518966446
dnbradio: 866.076802516555
drama queen: 967.208982852874
duperrrr: 987.37800112288
dydziekk: 983.207491576789
eddo: 873.610345231019
ehamo: 962.111888360221
essi: 857.139092390746
et_exit.: 1253.64303525661
evo: 1106.60784781101
expo: 995.412029901924
f3mm3: 1321.38170620399
flexz??: 1067.10610876973
fracziij: 984.166126785578
fritsie: 962.860483846385
gaffaz: 928.474496743243
gnou: 1009.23529681965
god: 1014.1754437623
gungh0: 995.966384552574
hazz: 987.444395768622
hemuu: 990.983539037186
highway: 1040.91708647592
holdtj: 928.668789427144
hooksinu: 1021.54423819243
inept: 1000.68268897871
innion: 995.05861863211
insaniity: 859.829986969099
instye: 943.082708628949
joey: 987.19371592342
kaarl: 984.270786477627
kreper1: 1119.25505074834
kwijl: 997.573750946389
legenddon: 960.848739265212
legi: 992.694586839924
leoo: 1092.60593399913
lock: 965.355977348451
lost: 740.910779049564
m@ster: 837.713299325739
meijer: 798.516342153304
mirqli: 1033.4166132523
miura: 981.895896673277
mr.sandman: 876.382475857087
n3rdje: 972.74401083997
neon: 993.111959131283
nico: 1230.01180706089
ninjadeer*: 1146.19240543737
ntz: 995.147264792913
olas: 984.415060451997
paddo: 890.50534803932
pinf: 982.720244983587
prada: 911.187281128709
pupup0x: 998.956900873134
rabowitz: 892.155152023043
range: 1205.9902207129
raven: 1003.2509298348
rena: 1121.60444052707
revenge: 1118.77875678853
rgman: 883.168631848866
run: 1033.35999879525
sabrewolf: 901.758048804732
scorp: 1020.5133080164
shady: 1218.94340071412
shamuzka: 946.678701809749
sinek9: 993.294161287761
skoczek3000: 997.449393144719
skyence.: 1037.850374359
smerf: 801.637536938573
spectator: 911.7269938108
spirit: 973.2833762073
sprint: 935.661893755029
stalker.: 939.505494400357
stealth: 1304.90396973939
stuns: 1082.6589936106
timothy: 1297.39847398126
toska: 958.963144640681
tromort: 952.747539619991
venomious: 1001.20871681283
virg377: 1003.75196140082
weedy: 998.084385880068
wut: 1004.66508820143
xdsander: 1205.86708267833
yave.: 996.520969905724
yoshi: 987.451845900047
z&o: 760.177910457082
zanc: 936.913746152761
ziizuz: 969.398169938083
I think this one is actually quite representable you can notice this with the difference between et_exit and f3mm3 even though there is a huge difference in amount of maps played.

EDIT: Here are results when using values similar to LoL:

Code: Select all

>>>rambo.: 1063.54892654509
**sykos: 1017.21248176937
*luna*: 1168.43299581627
*mush?: 1148.48462742837
.namdam: 1204.03865277886
0o0o0o: 1181.6506325201
999lullaby: 1199.75184675971
advanc3d: 1059.93776435228
ajb*: 1210.85999705784
aram: 1196.88508473534
arca: 1213.8264928236
arcticbear: 1161.98080008115
asdaa: 1221.86202625196
autist: 1065.54453181736
badboy: 1042.73115714156
bendy: 1184.44698822489
bladinator: 1169.62981921012
blue: 1196.84916579239
bones: 1198.96391625134
boody: 1093.73444278677
book: 1176.02084841175
bull: 1196.5852482158
chasin: 1230.75049708774
ciamcia: 1124.39559875778
craccio: 1158.24290579632
darky: 1461.40434021083
deadly: 1129.33492538774
diman: 1196.42551896645
dnbradio: 1066.07680251655
drama queen: 1167.20898285287
duperrrr: 1187.37800112288
dydziekk: 1183.20749157679
eddo: 1073.61034523102
ehamo: 1162.11188836022
essi: 1057.13909239075
et_exit.: 1453.64303525661
evo: 1306.60784781101
expo: 1195.41202990192
f3mm3: 1521.38170620399
flexz??: 1267.10610876973
fracziij: 1184.16612678558
fritsie: 1162.86048384638
gaffaz: 1128.47449674324
gnou: 1209.23529681965
god: 1214.1754437623
gungh0: 1195.96638455257
hazz: 1187.44439576862
hemuu: 1190.98353903719
highway: 1240.91708647592
holdtj: 1128.66878942714
hooksinu: 1221.54423819243
inept: 1200.68268897871
innion: 1195.05861863211
insaniity: 1059.8299869691
instye: 1143.08270862895
joey: 1187.19371592342
kaarl: 1184.27078647763
kreper1: 1319.25505074834
kwijl: 1197.57375094639
legenddon: 1160.84873926521
legi: 1192.69458683992
leoo: 1292.60593399913
lock: 1165.35597734845
lost: 940.910779049564
m@ster: 1037.71329932574
meijer: 998.516342153303
mirqli: 1233.4166132523
miura: 1181.89589667328
mr.sandman: 1076.38247585709
n3rdje: 1172.74401083997
neon: 1193.11195913128
nico: 1430.01180706089
ninjadeer*: 1346.19240543737
ntz: 1195.14726479291
olas: 1184.415060452
paddo: 1090.50534803932
pinf: 1182.72024498359
prada: 1111.18728112871
pupup0x: 1198.95690087313
rabowitz: 1092.15515202304
range: 1405.9902207129
raven: 1203.25092983481
rena: 1321.60444052707
revenge: 1318.77875678853
rgman: 1083.16863184887
run: 1233.35999879525
sabrewolf: 1101.75804880473
scorp: 1220.5133080164
shady: 1418.94340071412
shamuzka: 1146.67870180975
sinek9: 1193.29416128776
skoczek3000: 1197.44939314472
skyence.: 1237.85037435899
smerf: 1001.63753693857
spectator: 1111.7269938108
spirit: 1173.2833762073
sprint: 1135.66189375503
stalker.: 1139.50549440036
stealth: 1504.90396973939
stuns: 1282.6589936106
timothy: 1497.39847398126
toska: 1158.96314464068
tromort: 1152.74753961999
venomious: 1201.20871681283
virg377: 1203.75196140082
weedy: 1198.08438588007
wut: 1204.66508820143
xdsander: 1405.86708267833
yave.: 1196.52096990572
yoshi: 1187.45184590005
z&o: 960.177910457083
zanc: 1136.91374615276
ziizuz: 1169.39816993808

Raven
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:18 pm

Re: Score/Ranking system [long post]

Post by Raven »

NinjaDeer* wrote:i think the current system is fine
It really isn't..





@Stealth ~ Yea well there is a 100 number difference between Exit & F3mm3, not 5000...
Image

nico
Site Admin
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:40 pm

Re: Score/Ranking system [long post]

Post by nico »

Site has been updated with new ranking system.

Player scores will now be refreshed every hour (for the moment. I have to see how server load goes...).

@Stealth: thank you for your work.
--
>Nico*
Contact: pm me

stealth
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: Score/Ranking system [long post]

Post by stealth »

To the people that think I rigged the election. The score is based on beating people that are better than you. Why I'm highest atm, I don't know, but I regularly try to go back on maps where I had a bad score and improve them. At 1 point All my maps were #4 or better.

To get a better score you have to beat people who have a better score than you. It is player vs player. Why inept has a high score and he only has 16 maps played is simple I think. He joined the ranking and the system thinks he is a new player, but he instantly beat Shady who is rank #8 so it put him in front of Shady.

The system makes an estimate of what are your chances of beating the people on this map? High or low, then when you beat them if you had a high chance of beating them then you won't get that much score, if you beat them and it was unexpected then you will get a higher score.

So instead of just putting a time down on a map you have to put some effort into it. Atm looks like exit will be the highest after some time since he is always #1. The only reason he isn't #1 yet is because there are some maps where he doesn't have a rec and other people do.

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